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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number 704

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for the 3rd of april 2022 richard

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saunders coming to you from sydney

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australia did you survive april fool's

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day

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nobody tried to play an april fool's

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prank on me and i didn't prank anybody

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else

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and i think that's the general trend

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i remember when i was growing up april

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fools was a big day

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lots of media coverage lots of funny

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things going on but these days

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maybe people discovered that practical

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jokes

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sometimes

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really aren't that funny

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i don't know society changes but what

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doesn't change what doesn't change

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is the

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success rate of the australian

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vaccination risks network when they take

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legal action

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it doesn't change because it's abysmal

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we're going to be covering a story

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brought to my attention in the last week

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of yet another court action brought by

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these

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people

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and the outcome and we speak to noted

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skeptical campaigner skeptical activist

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ken mcleod what if those increasingly

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silly people at the australian

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vaccination risks network been up to

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lately why did they end up in court

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find out at the top of the show

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after that it's a sort of a follow-up to

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a story we had about a month ago when

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nurses and midwives took to the streets

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here in sydney to protest against their

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conditions and the extra stress and

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workloads there

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they're facing

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and they did it again in the past week

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they went back to the streets to march

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and protest and we catch up with some

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nurses on the street and ask them what

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their concerns are

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and there's a podcast that supports

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science and reason

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and

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scientific scientifically based medicine

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we certainly support nurses and midwives

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after that it's part two of the call of

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the quack in the book of tim

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now this is a report by tim harding

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last week tim looked at quackery in

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ancient greece

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and this week he looks at quackery in

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ancient rome

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and of course this is from

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the pages of the skeptic magazine the

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journal from australian skeptics then to

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round off the show it's back to the

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treasure trove of trove the digital

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archives going back centuries here in

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australia from australian newspapers and

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magazines

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and we're going to be looking up things

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like james randy and the australian

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skeptics and so on

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no matter where you are around the world

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i hope you're having a good weekend

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i don't know maybe you've gone out to

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some birthday parties

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everyone has a birthday party once in a

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while and of course it occurs to me that

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uh a certain percentage of my listeners

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dare i say one in 365 or something like

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that are having a birthday today happy

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birthday or yesterday so it narrows the

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odds down a bit or did you have a

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birthday in the last week or the week

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ahead

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it reminds me of an old cold reading

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routine

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where the uh

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the performer let's call them would

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stand on the stage and look at somebody

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and say i'm sensing a birthday around

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you

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who had a birthday last month or or

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it's

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i kid you not this is one of the

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routines they use

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and you think about it dear listener

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think about it

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do you know somebody who had a birthday

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last month

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this month

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or is going to have a birthday next

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month

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the chances are you do i certainly do

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i've got a couple of lucky nieces coming

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up

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better run out and buy some presents for

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them

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so to all those people having birthdays

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or have had a lot of fun visiting people

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having a nice birthday party

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i'm thinking of you but now it's time

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for me to run downstairs and look for

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some birthday cake well there's no

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birthday cake here

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hmm maybe i'll just have some cake

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chocolate cake of course while i do that

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[Applause]

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and joining me on the line now is

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somebody who i have a great deal of

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respect for i've known for many years

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it's somebody who actually takes action

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now you've heard that expression folks

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i'm sure everybody complains about the

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weather but nobody does anything about

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it well here's a man who does something

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about it not the weather maybe not the

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weather but many other things it's ken

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mcleod hello ken

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good morning richard good morning now i

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i seem to remember not too long ago

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maybe in the last five or six years

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seeing you pop up uh talking about

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another issue and we'll get to the main

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issue soon which is the australian

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vaccination risks network and

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recent goings-on in court but uh you

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were talking about

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chemtrails condensation trails

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you're a man of many talents

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[Music]

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well thank you yes

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um i got a call from channel 10 they had

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a morning program discussing issues of

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the day

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and the issue then was chemtrails and

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they got some guy in from america who's

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made a fortune publishing books about

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chemtrails and so they got me in as the

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resident skeptic with some experience in

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aviation

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and so on to explain the the the the

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facts and the science behind chemtrails

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or as we prefer to call them in the real

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world condensation trials that's right

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so i i think it's quite interesting that

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someone like yourself has

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quite a broad range of of knowledge and

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before again before we get to the main

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issue we will talk about soon when i'm

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saying that people complain about the

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weather but nobody does anything about

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it people complain about what they see

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as miscarriages of justice or wonky

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things or shonky things especially in

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the world of alternative medicine but

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your policy your policy is to do

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something about it via official

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channels official channels and how does

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that process work for you

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well my background is as a bureaucrat in

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the aviation industry for the

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commonwealth departments

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and so i've got some experience with

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regulatory authorities and so on

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now it occurred to me that people

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complain about fraudulent charities or

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crank health promoters and influences

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but they complain and leave it there now

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i thought there is a regulator for every

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aspect of human activity and in the case

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of charities there is a regulator there

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just waiting for the complaints to come

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in

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and there's regulators there for

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fraudulent medical advice and so on

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and so my technique is to gather all the

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evidence

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about this particular recalcitrant

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let's say for example the avn

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and

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it's the healthcare complaints

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commission

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and i leave it to them now

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usually usually um in the case of the

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federal uh regulator the australian

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health practitioners regular

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regulator agency

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that's usually just an informal warning

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via a phone call but occasionally uh

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these things do pay off with uh

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prosecution

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and i'm thinking of france sheffield

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right yes of course from homeopathy plus

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who was making

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very unwise um

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claims about homeopathy and whooping

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cough

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and malaria vaccines and so on now that

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wasn't one of my complaints um i can't

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remember who actually did it but i i'm

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looking at

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professor ken harvey

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to thank for that one but um

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there have been a few pres prosecutions

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there's been some deregistrations uh

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some surrendering of licenses that sort

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of thing

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and um even changes of legislation in

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the case of the avn

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so it is an effective technique it is

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time consuming

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but let's not forget of course that all

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these regulators

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are under resourced and under funded and

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the people there are generally swamped

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with um you know

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so much complaints and so on and so you

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have to make a good case that this is

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an issue worth pursuing and sometimes

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they do so you know some people complain

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about the regulators not acting but

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maybe it's down to the fact that people

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haven't put in the formal evidence um

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and and i appeal to people to um you

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know if you can afford the time to get

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onto facebook and complain about

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something you can probably put in a

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formal complaint to the appropriate

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regulator yeah but you're right it is it

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is a process it's not something you can

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just ring up somebody and say do

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something about this and they say yes of

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course i'll do it and then you know

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situation is is resolved now let's talk

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briefly about the the avn now in the

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early days of the skeptic zone going

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back over a decade of course the

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australian vaccination network

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no matter what they call themselves they

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used to be called the australian

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vaccination skeptics network and then

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they changed their name to the

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australian vaccination risks network

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which i think they are at the moment but

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we just normally refer to them as the

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avn

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and we used to talk about them a lot

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because they were very very upfront very

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in your face

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uh raising all sorts of money running

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around the country

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with their propaganda and so on

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and

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this has all been prompted recently by

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the publication in the courts

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the federal court of australia has

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published a negative or an adverse or a

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finding or a determination

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against the avn what's the overview of

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this whole process

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why did the avn

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launch this legal action in the first

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place

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well this this was the last of a very

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long line of legal actions launched by

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the ibm

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all bar one have been unsuccessful and

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the poor gullible mugs out there who

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contribute

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can only blame themselves for wasting

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their money

286
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:55,440
responding to these appeals

287
00:10:59,750 --> 00:10:58,079
their cases are usually much the same

288
00:11:02,150 --> 00:10:59,760
and they're not the only ones that do it

289
00:11:05,110 --> 00:11:02,160
of course uh but usually it's a

290
00:11:06,949 --> 00:11:05,120
challenge to vaccine mandates issued by

291
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:06,959
the state governments

292
00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:09,360
um and all and this latest one was a bit

293
00:11:14,550 --> 00:11:11,680
unusual they were objecting to the

294
00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:14,560
registration of covert vaccines at all

295
00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:16,480
claiming that um

296
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:18,320
that the commonwealth health officer and

297
00:11:22,069 --> 00:11:20,480
the tga should not have authorized these

298
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:22,079
vaccines now

299
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:24,800
it was it was silly to start with and

300
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:26,640
interestingly and this is where you need

301
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:28,720
to call on a lawyer

302
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:32,160
it came down in the federal court as to

303
00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:33,440
whether the

304
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:36,959
avn had standing to even bring the case

305
00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:39,360
and yesterday's decision was

306
00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:41,440
no they don't um

307
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:42,240
so

308
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:44,320
they never even got to argue their case

309
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:47,120
as to whether uh the vaccines had been

310
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:48,959
you know properly authorized and so on

311
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:51,040
and and i i think you know reading

312
00:11:54,590 --> 00:11:53,440
between the lines i think lawyers

313
00:11:57,110 --> 00:11:54,600
and courts everywhere regard the

314
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:57,120
regardless a bunch of rat bags and let's

315
00:12:00,629 --> 00:11:59,680
not take them too seriously and

316
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:00,639
can i

317
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:03,040
deduce from this rightly or wrongly that

318
00:12:08,629 --> 00:12:06,079
it's quite possible that the avn

319
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:08,639
are not getting the best of legal advice

320
00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:11,040
if they proceed with these uh

321
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:12,560
methods

322
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:14,399
well that's probably more for

323
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:17,760
lawyers and the law society to say but i

324
00:12:21,350 --> 00:12:20,399
i am surprised that um

325
00:12:23,910 --> 00:12:21,360
that

326
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:23,920
the avn and similar organizations keep

327
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:26,800
running the same cases you know

328
00:12:30,230 --> 00:12:28,240
they keep running the same thing and

329
00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:30,240
they keep losing so

330
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,880
if i was a solicitor giving advice to

331
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:34,560
someone who just walked in the door i

332
00:12:37,750 --> 00:12:36,560
would say well your chances of success

333
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:37,760
in this case

334
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:39,200
are incredibly small and you're going to

335
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:40,560
waste your money but i'll take your

336
00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:41,760
money

337
00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:45,120
i've heard lawyers say that um so but i

338
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:46,720
am a little surprised as to why they

339
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:48,880
keep trying another way of looking at it

340
00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:51,040
of course is it's it's a bit of a

341
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:53,839
fundraiser and an attention getter so

342
00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:57,040
possibly so but these proceedings

343
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:58,720
they're not they're not a small thing

344
00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:00,240
and they're not cheap

345
00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:02,480
no no that's that's right i mean i'd

346
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:04,399
love to see their bill and it's

347
00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:06,720
strangely enough when the

348
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:08,959
court then considers the award of cost

349
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:11,279
we will have some idea

350
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:13,600
as to how much it's cost each party now

351
00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:15,120
for the commonwealth

352
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:16,880
um

353
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:18,880
you know there was a bracket of

354
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,800
barristers and legal advice so i would

355
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,639
think this cost the taxpayer well north

356
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:24,480
of a hundred thousand dollars it's

357
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:26,000
interesting because i'm just

358
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:28,000
glancing through the uh what was being

359
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:30,240
published by the the court here and in

360
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:32,480
one paragraph it says in the absence of

361
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:35,279
agreement on costs uh section b the

362
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:37,279
respondent is to file and serve written

363
00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:39,199
submissions as to the costs within seven

364
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:41,199
days of receipt of the submissions on

365
00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:44,079
costs referred to in the subparagraph a

366
00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:46,079
beloved lots of uh

367
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:49,680
above legal talk there but um

368
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:52,000
one wonders why they why

369
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,920
what's the expression you know if if you

370
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:55,519
keep doing the same thing with the same

371
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:57,120
results why would you expect a different

372
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:58,880
result

373
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:00,959
i think that's the the definition of

374
00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:03,920
insanity maybe so

375
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:05,920
look folks i will link

376
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:09,680
uh directly to the pdf and this pdf is

377
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:11,440
direct from the federal court of

378
00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:13,680
australia it's not very long it's not

379
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:16,160
it's it's only less than really it's

380
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:18,399
less than three pages but it's certainly

381
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:21,279
yet another blow against the avn but i

382
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,680
guess in one sense the av and are the uh

383
00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:25,600
classic unsinkable rubber duck aren't

384
00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:26,800
they

385
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:30,399
i mean uh

386
00:14:34,629 --> 00:14:33,600
the avn's been around for oh 30 years or

387
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:34,639
so

388
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:36,399
founded by a couple of chiropractors

389
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:38,480
strangely enough even though other

390
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:40,800
people claim the the credit

391
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:41,760
um

392
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:43,120
and

393
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:45,120
for the first 10 years or so quite or

394
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:48,240
first 20 years quite successful and then

395
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:49,920
in response to their appalling

396
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:51,920
mistreatment of grieving families and so

397
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:54,639
on people like myself and skeptical

398
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:57,120
organizations started to take notice

399
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:59,199
and there's now that permanent public

400
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:00,800
warning issued by the health care

401
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:02,800
complaints commission against them

402
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:03,600
um

403
00:15:07,509 --> 00:15:05,920
which is sort of yeah

404
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:07,519
they're still floating as a rubber duck

405
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,600
but uh probably just as relevant to the

406
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:11,279
world yeah

407
00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:13,199
and they and they also float around in

408
00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:15,360
their vast bus of course which we've

409
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:16,959
spoken about on the skeptic zone before

410
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:18,959
this is the big black bus

411
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:20,880
they when they can they tour the country

412
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:22,320
and uh videos

413
00:15:26,069 --> 00:15:24,480
uh people who come along

414
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:26,079
yeah

415
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:28,240
it's it's all terribly sad that people

416
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:30,720
can waste their talents and uh and money

417
00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:32,639
on such activities but you know that's

418
00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:34,079
the price we pay for living in a

419
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:36,639
democracy i guess so well we'll keep an

420
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:38,320
eye on this situation again folks i will

421
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,320
link directly to this court finding it's

422
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,639
very quick to read and uh you might find

423
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:44,160
that very interesting no matter where

424
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:45,920
you're listening to us from around the

425
00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:46,720
world

426
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,120
we'll keep you up-to-date listeners on

427
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:51,440
what eventuates with this case but for

428
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,399
now

429
00:15:56,330 --> 00:15:55,199
ken mcleod thanks very much okay goodbye

430
00:16:06,710 --> 00:15:56,340
all see ya

431
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:09,350
hi this is dr pamela gay from astronomy

432
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:10,320
cast

433
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:12,320
each week fraser kane and i take our

434
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:14,160
listeners on a fact-based journey

435
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:16,399
through the cosmos with our weekly

436
00:16:21,829 --> 00:16:19,279
podcast we explain not just what we know

437
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:21,839
but how we know what we know about this

438
00:16:25,150 --> 00:16:23,759
universe that we share

439
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:25,160
check us out at

440
00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:27,279
astronomycast.com and look for us in

441
00:16:31,269 --> 00:16:29,519
itunes google play and wherever you

442
00:16:32,950 --> 00:16:31,279
download podcasts

443
00:16:48,629 --> 00:16:32,960
see you online

444
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:51,269
today is the 31st of march 2022 i'm

445
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:53,199
downtown sydney once again because i

446
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:54,240
heard

447
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:56,959
that as reported on the skeptic zone

448
00:17:02,470 --> 00:16:58,480
about a month ago

449
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:02,480
uh nurses and midwives are once again

450
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:04,240
feel compelled to come to the streets to

451
00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:06,720
protest against their

452
00:17:10,870 --> 00:17:08,640
uh their conditions or what they see is

453
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:10,880
a lack of action or so forth

454
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:13,360
i've uh i'm here in martin place which

455
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:14,959
is in the heart of the city

456
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:16,959
and the protest was up in macquarie

457
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:18,880
street where the parliament is

458
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:21,120
uh people in uniform with badges and so

459
00:17:28,950 --> 00:17:22,240
on

460
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:28,960
of caregivers caregivers to patients you

461
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:30,240
can hear them all

462
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:32,480
and there's a small group of uh nurses

463
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:33,919
coming my way

464
00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:35,600
could i interview you for a second for a

465
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:36,880
podcast i'm doing it's called the

466
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:38,559
skeptic zone it's science and reason

467
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:41,520
podcast where support scientific based

468
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:43,760
medicine and things like that and i was

469
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:46,080
here a month ago and i was interviewing

470
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:47,919
some of the nurses at the pro oh to put

471
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:50,480
on the mask always a good idea

472
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:51,919
sends a good message sends a good

473
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:52,799
message

474
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:54,160
now um

475
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:55,520
if you wouldn't mind telling me what

476
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:58,160
what brought you back to the streets

477
00:18:02,150 --> 00:17:58,960
um

478
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:02,160
ratios safe safe nursing

479
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:03,440
um

480
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:05,760
yeah we're understaffed or overwhelmed

481
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:06,720
and

482
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:09,280
it's gonna lead to accidents or mistakes

483
00:18:13,909 --> 00:18:12,240
and potentially loss of lives it's

484
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:13,919
pretty dramatic i thought a month ago

485
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,400
was dramatic to have nurses come out and

486
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,480
you know make these strong points

487
00:18:22,789 --> 00:18:20,480
uh and for those of my listeners who may

488
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:22,799
not quite get the concept of ratios

489
00:18:29,029 --> 00:18:25,280
exactly what does that mean um so you

490
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:29,039
will have one nurse to say six patients

491
00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:32,320
what we want is in general wards one

492
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:34,799
nurse to four patients

493
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:37,039
in a day we want one nurse to three

494
00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:39,200
patients right um at the moment that's

495
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,600
not happening and what what do you think

496
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,360
it is is it the political

497
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:45,440
inaction or is it people just don't get

498
00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:46,559
it

499
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:51,039
victoria

500
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:53,440
south australia has just brought it in

501
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:55,840
and queensland all have ratios

502
00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:58,000
victoria's had ratios for the last two

503
00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:01,280
decades um yeah so

504
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:02,000
it's

505
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:06,320
feel very strongly about it all of you

506
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:08,000
here with me at the moment to come out

507
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:09,120
on the streets

508
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:11,760
uh and take this action which is i think

509
00:19:14,549 --> 00:19:13,440
it's very unusual for nurses have you

510
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:14,559
ever taken

511
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:15,840
part in anything like this before were

512
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:17,679
you here a month ago yes i was here a

513
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:19,520
month ago um

514
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:20,720
i think

515
00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:22,400
it's definitely unusual for new south

516
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:25,760
wales um for strikes for nurses but it

517
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:28,640
happened in victoria in the 1980s and

518
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:30,640
that's when they saw mandated ratios and

519
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:33,039
i think it's definitely necessary and

520
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:34,240
you're here for the same reason i take

521
00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:36,000
it yeah i think we're just asking for

522
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:37,840
the bare minimum the safety of our

523
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:40,400
patients it benefits everybody it's a

524
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:42,320
lot of evidence-based

525
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:44,000
a lot of evidence in

526
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:46,480
saying it saves money it improves

527
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:49,120
patient outcomes it allows us to

528
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:50,400
identify

529
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:52,960
any issues faster it gives patients a

530
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:56,240
better experience and it just keeps us

531
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:57,440
sane

532
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:58,400
and

533
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,440
it just it makes no sense to me how this

534
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:03,840
couldn't just be the bet like it's the

535
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:05,440
bare minimum we're not asking for help

536
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:07,440
we're just asking for the bare minimum i

537
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:09,200
think you all make very excellent points

538
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:10,559
thank you so much for sparing a little

539
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:12,640
bit of time uh have a listen to the show

540
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:14,960
it comes out every weekend and you'll be

541
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:17,200
able to hear yourselves

542
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:20,159
thank you

543
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:22,080
so there you go and as i stand here

544
00:20:24,789 --> 00:20:23,039
there are

545
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,799
streams and streams of nurses with

546
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,000
placards

547
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:28,960
and their blue scrubs and um

548
00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:31,600
it it takes a lot i think it takes a lot

549
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:33,039
for these people

550
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:39,990
because their interest is caring for

551
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:41,520
people

552
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:43,760
and so i think you can understand some

553
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:45,850
of their passion and concern

554
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:47,120
[Music]

555
00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:49,280
so from martin place in sydney with this

556
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,960
follow-up report from our story from

557
00:21:02,400 --> 00:20:52,080
last month

558
00:21:02,410 --> 00:21:13,669
[Music]

559
00:21:13,679 --> 00:21:20,390
foreign

560
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,430
tv

561
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:24,730
[Applause]

562
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:31,280
[Music]

563
00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:32,630
and now

564
00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:34,760
a reading from the book of tim

565
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:37,520
[Music]

566
00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:40,290
with tim menden

567
00:21:49,029 --> 00:21:46,640
[Music]

568
00:21:51,029 --> 00:21:49,039
hi my name is tim mendenham i'm

569
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:51,039
executive officer of australian skeptics

570
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:51,760
inc

571
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:53,679
and editor of our quarterly magazine the

572
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:55,120
skeptic

573
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:57,360
and i'm here today to read from one of

574
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:59,679
our older issues of the magazine on the

575
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:01,679
article called the call of the quack

576
00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:03,600
which is part two

577
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:06,600
this article appeared in the september

578
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,120
2013 issue of the magazine which was

579
00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:11,520
volume 33 number four and you can

580
00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:12,400
download

581
00:22:16,750 --> 00:22:14,480
the whole issue of the magazine for free

582
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:16,760
from our website

583
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:19,760
skeptics.com.a you

584
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:22,080
now last time i was speaking about

585
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:25,280
the issue of quack and what quackery is

586
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:26,559
and we're looking at the ancient

587
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,320
medicine as practiced in in greece

588
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:31,919
now we're looking at

589
00:22:37,630 --> 00:22:34,000
taking it one step further and looking

590
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:37,640
at quackery in the roman roman days

591
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:41,440
[Music]

592
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:42,960
a traditional roman medicine was

593
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,039
initially an amateur activity using

594
00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:47,200
simple home remedies based on easily

595
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:50,000
available ingredients such as wool eggs

596
00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:52,799
and the humble but miraculous cabbage

597
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:54,880
kato the elder wrote in his treatise on

598
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:56,159
agriculture

599
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:58,240
for those who were troubled by colic

600
00:23:02,710 --> 00:23:00,559
cabbage should be steeped in water

601
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:02,720
now as to patients for whom urination is

602
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:04,480
painful or dribbling

603
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:05,919
take cabbage

604
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:08,320
put in boiling water boil briefly until

605
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:09,520
half cooked

606
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:11,760
if any sore or cancer develops in the

607
00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:14,400
breasts apply ground cabbage

608
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:16,240
in case of dislocation

609
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:18,400
ferment with hot water twice a day and

610
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:21,120
apply ground cabbage it will soon cure

611
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:24,080
it cabbage as the cure all the romans

612
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:26,799
were highly superstitious people and out

613
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:28,400
of fondness for cabbage

614
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,559
for example the roman senate only sat on

615
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:32,400
auspicious days

616
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:35,120
in around 78 a.d pliny the elder wrote

617
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,880
in his natural history

618
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:38,880
i find that a bad cold in the head

619
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:41,120
clears up if the sufferer kisses a mule

620
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:42,720
on the nose

621
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:44,799
some people keep a weasel's heart in a

622
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:46,880
small silver container for swollen

623
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:48,400
glands

624
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:51,120
gee there's similar things today too

625
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:52,080
anyway

626
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:53,760
the number three was regarded as a lucky

627
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:55,840
number an anonymous roman inscription

628
00:23:59,190 --> 00:23:56,799
reads

629
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:59,200
to julian who was spitting up blood and

630
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:01,600
had been despaired off by all men the

631
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:03,840
god revealed that he should go and from

632
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:06,799
the three-fold altar take the seeds of a

633
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:09,039
pine cone and eat them with honey for

634
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,240
three days

635
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:12,480
and he was saved and went and publicly

636
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:15,279
offered thanks before the people

637
00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:16,640
later roman culture was greatly

638
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:18,320
influenced by the ancient greeks in many

639
00:24:22,390 --> 00:24:20,480
things including philosophy literature

640
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:22,400
art science and medicine

641
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:26,400
galen of pergamon from 129 to 200 a.d or

642
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:28,480
ce as we now call it was a leading

643
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:30,480
surgeon physician and philosopher of

644
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:34,480
greek origin in 162 ce he established a

645
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,799
large and successful practice in rome

646
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:38,480
where he attended the emperor marcus

647
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:39,760
aurelius

648
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:41,840
among his voluminous works

649
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:44,480
was a short essay entitled that the best

650
00:24:49,110 --> 00:24:47,039
physician is also a philosopher

651
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:49,120
where he urged physicians to emulate

652
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:51,760
hippocrates and to embrace logic and

653
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:53,760
rationality

654
00:24:58,230 --> 00:24:56,159
what reason then remains why the doctor

655
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:58,240
who practices the art in a manner worthy

656
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,679
of hippocrates should not be a

657
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:01,120
philosopher

658
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:02,880
for since in order to discover the

659
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:05,120
nature of the body and the distinctions

660
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:07,360
between diseases and the indications for

661
00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:10,400
remedies he must exercise his mind in

662
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:11,840
rational thought

663
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:14,000
and since so that he may persevere

664
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:16,159
laboriously in the practice of these

665
00:25:21,510 --> 00:25:19,120
things he must despise riches and

666
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:21,520
exercise temperance he must already

667
00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:23,840
possess all the parts of philosophy

668
00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:26,159
the logical the scientific

669
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:26,840
and the

670
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,720
ethical consistent with this approach

671
00:25:33,669 --> 00:25:30,960
galen saw the bodies of living things

672
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:33,679
and their various parts as designed and

673
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:36,240
operated by a craftsman-like nature with

674
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:37,919
a purpose in mind

675
00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:40,159
thus an important key to anatopical and

676
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:42,000
physiological knowledge is an

677
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:44,799
understanding of nature's purposes

678
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:47,200
this form of intelligent design has been

679
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:49,360
described as a teleological view of

680
00:25:53,350 --> 00:25:52,080
biology by modern reviewers of galen's

681
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:53,360
writings

682
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:55,600
galen held that nature rules the body

683
00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:58,400
from three anatomical centers

684
00:26:01,430 --> 00:26:00,480
wait for it the liver the heart and the

685
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:01,440
brain

686
00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:04,080
in contrast to the aristotelian view

687
00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:05,919
that all faculties are centered in the

688
00:26:09,669 --> 00:26:07,360
heart

689
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:09,679
galen claimed that human physiology can

690
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:11,840
be explained by the principal activities

691
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:14,880
of nature which are genesis growth and

692
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:16,480
nutrition

693
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:18,400
like hippocrates galen believed in the

694
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:20,000
need for the four humans to be in

695
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:21,120
balance

696
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:22,799
he thought that the human body had three

697
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:24,480
physiological spheres

698
00:26:30,149 --> 00:26:27,679
the nutritive the vital and the logical

699
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:30,159
according to galen stomach cooks food to

700
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:32,080
what was called kyle

701
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:34,559
and sends it to the liver the liver adds

702
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:36,720
natural spirit and sends it to other

703
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:38,720
organs and the heart

704
00:26:42,710 --> 00:26:41,279
the heart adds vital spirit and sends it

705
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:42,720
to the brain

706
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:44,799
the brain adds what was called pneuma

707
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:47,360
that's p-n-e-u-m-a

708
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:50,159
and sends to the body through nerves

709
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:52,000
such views were the likely origin of the

710
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:55,440
modern naturopathic belief in vitalism

711
00:27:00,149 --> 00:26:57,520
that persists today

712
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:00,159
enteropathy posits that a special energy

713
00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:02,880
called vital energy or vital force

714
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:04,960
guides bodily processes such as

715
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:08,080
metabolism reproduction growth and

716
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,360
adaptation

717
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:12,320
such energies and forces are unknown to

718
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:14,240
modern science

719
00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:15,840
for religious reasons there was little

720
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:18,080
or no dissection of human corpses in

721
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:19,440
ancient rome

722
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:21,360
nevertheless galen believed in the

723
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:23,600
supreme importance of anatomy

724
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:26,080
so he regularly performed dissections on

725
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:27,120
animals

726
00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:28,240
although he was conscious of the

727
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:29,760
limitations of extrapolating from

728
00:27:34,870 --> 00:27:32,159
animals to humans he did express some

729
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:34,880
erroneous views about human anatomy such

730
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:36,960
as the following description in his work

731
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:39,600
on the usefulness of parts of the body

732
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:42,080
in which he says all the parts then that

733
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:44,240
men have women have two

734
00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:45,600
the difference between them lying in

735
00:27:49,909 --> 00:27:47,520
only one thing which must be kept in

736
00:27:52,149 --> 00:27:49,919
mind throughout the discussion namely

737
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:52,159
that in women the parts are within the

738
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:54,880
body whereas in men they are outside

739
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:58,320
in the region called the perineum

740
00:28:02,710 --> 00:28:00,559
consider first whichever ones you please

741
00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:02,720
turn out with the woman's turn inwards

742
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:04,720
so to speak and fold double the man's

743
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:06,880
and you will find them the same in both

744
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:09,279
in every respect

745
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:11,520
women were treated by male physicians

746
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,600
and the gynecological treatises of the

747
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:15,440
hippocratic corpus were almost certainly

748
00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:16,399
written by

749
00:28:20,230 --> 00:28:18,480
and for men

750
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,240
part of the deficiency of observational

751
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:22,640
evidence stems from the failure of male

752
00:28:26,789 --> 00:28:25,120
medical writers to speak to women about

753
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:26,799
their illnesses

754
00:28:30,789 --> 00:28:28,799
so what's new women were traditionally

755
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:30,799
presented as being incapable of knowing

756
00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:32,320
what was wrong with them

757
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:34,640
or telling a doctor if they did know

758
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:37,039
galen's teleological view of biology

759
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:38,720
also appears to have influenced his

760
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:41,440
attitude towards women when he says

761
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:43,360
so too the woman is less perfect than

762
00:28:46,789 --> 00:28:45,840
the man in respect to the generative

763
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:46,799
parts

764
00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:50,799
when she was still a fetus

765
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:52,960
but could not because of the defect in

766
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:55,440
the heart emerge and project on the

767
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:57,200
outside

768
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:59,039
and this they're making the animal

769
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,159
itself

770
00:29:04,789 --> 00:29:02,720
that was being formed less perfect than

771
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:04,799
one that is complete in all respects

772
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:06,880
provided no small advantage

773
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:09,520
for the race but their needs must be a

774
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:10,559
female

775
00:29:14,789 --> 00:29:12,799
indeed he ought not to think that our

776
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:14,799
creator would purposely make half the

777
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:17,120
whole race imperfect and as it were

778
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:19,600
mutilated unless there was to be some

779
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:23,200
great advantage in such a mutilation

780
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,279
these biased attitudes impacted wider

781
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:27,120
greek and roman society for example it

782
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:29,360
was believed on false medical grounds

783
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,760
that a man's seed was most potent when

784
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:33,760
he was about 30 years of age

785
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:35,679
and the woman's body best suited for

786
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:38,960
childbirth when she was still a teenager

787
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,559
the medical theories of ancient greece

788
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:42,480
and rome formed the foundation of

789
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:44,640
western medicine for centuries even if

790
00:29:48,389 --> 00:29:46,720
they were eventually rejected

791
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,399
the main reasons for this rejection were

792
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:50,559
the development of empirical scientific

793
00:29:53,909 --> 00:29:52,399
methods after the renaissance

794
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:53,919
coupled with advances such as the

795
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:56,320
invention of the microscope and the germ

796
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,960
theory of infectious disease

797
00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:00,480
while there were observations of

798
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:02,640
individual patients there is no evidence

799
00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:05,200
of any organized medical experiments

800
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:07,120
being conducted in ancient greece and

801
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:09,919
rome let alone clinical trials

802
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:11,600
in some ways the greek philosophical

803
00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:14,159
traditions of logic and rationality held

804
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:16,000
back a more empirical scientific

805
00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:17,440
approach to medicine

806
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:18,799
instead of conducting practical

807
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:20,640
experiments on illnesses

808
00:30:24,549 --> 00:30:22,159
ancient greek and roman physicians

809
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:24,559
became diverted into a search for the

810
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:26,880
underlying purposes of diseases a

811
00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:29,600
relatively fruitless search for meaning

812
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:32,240
rather than for empirical evidence this

813
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:34,720
mystical and unscientific approach is

814
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:43,590
and that's part two of an article called

815
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:46,000
the call of the quack by tim harding

816
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:47,919
published in the skeptic magazine

817
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:52,640
september 2013 volume 33 number three

818
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:54,640
which you can download the whole issue

819
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:56,960
not just that article for free on our

820
00:30:59,810 --> 00:30:58,240
website

821
00:31:20,389 --> 00:30:59,820
skeptics.com

822
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:20,399
[Music]

823
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:22,080
be reasonable as the interview show from

824
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:24,320
the merseyside skeptic society where

825
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:25,679
each month i speak to someone about

826
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:27,760
their fringe beliefs over the years i've

827
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:30,240
spoken to psychics ufo believers moon

828
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:32,320
landing deniers flat earthers hollow

829
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:34,000
earthers and all manner of unusual

830
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:36,000
conspiracy theorists but i've also

831
00:31:40,389 --> 00:31:37,760
talked to aids denialists white

832
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:40,399
supremacists gay conversion therapists i

833
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:42,000
even interviewed jim humble the inventor

834
00:31:45,269 --> 00:31:44,000
of miracle mineral supplement a form of

835
00:31:47,909 --> 00:31:45,279
industrial beliefs that he and his

836
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:47,919
followers use to treat cancer and hiv

837
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,000
this isn't a debate sure my aim isn't to

838
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:52,080
win an argument but when we listen to

839
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:54,480
how people promote and justify the ideas

840
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:56,559
that we disagree with even the dangerous

841
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,320
ones i think we become much more

842
00:32:01,669 --> 00:32:00,480
effective at countering those ideas

843
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:01,679
if that sounds like something you'd be

844
00:32:05,669 --> 00:32:03,840
interested in look for be reasonable on

845
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:05,679
apple podcasts and everywhere else the

846
00:32:11,170 --> 00:32:25,750
[Music]

847
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:27,590
now it's time once again to dive into

848
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:32,950
the

849
00:32:37,830 --> 00:32:35,600
online resource for digitized newspapers

850
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:37,840
and gazettes and magazines and

851
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:40,640
periodicals and journals and

852
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:44,480
amazing an amazing array of publications

853
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:47,360
free for you to trawl

854
00:32:52,389 --> 00:32:50,799
to investigate to uh examine

855
00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:52,399
and in keeping with our

856
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:54,080
paranormal theme

857
00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:56,320
this time we're going to look at various

858
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:59,440
mentions of australian skeptics and such

859
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:01,360
like at work

860
00:33:07,910 --> 00:33:03,519
as represented in the pages of

861
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:10,549
[Music]

862
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:13,039
and when i say of such i mean things

863
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:15,840
like james randy so we begin

864
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:17,519
with a little snippet here from the

865
00:33:23,549 --> 00:33:19,840
australian jewish news

866
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:23,559
from

867
00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:28,480
1994 published on the 24th of june

868
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:30,480
and it's just a little segment a little

869
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:31,519
uh

870
00:33:36,950 --> 00:33:34,480
patch here on the page television

871
00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:36,960
spoon bender uri geller is featured in

872
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:40,000
secrets of the psychics on sbs

873
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:41,279
about us

874
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:44,240
june 29 8 30 pm professional magician

875
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:47,120
and skeptic james randy tests the claims

876
00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:49,600
of people like geller who claim to have

877
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:52,480
paranormal powers

878
00:33:55,590 --> 00:33:54,399
now i imagine that made a mention in the

879
00:33:59,830 --> 00:33:55,600
jewish

880
00:34:03,509 --> 00:33:59,840
news because

881
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:03,519
gala was originally from israel

882
00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:06,240
and that documentary by the way secrets

883
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:08,240
of the psychics i think that i'm pretty

884
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,399
sure that's available on youtube

885
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:12,560
and it's worth having a look secrets of

886
00:34:17,909 --> 00:34:15,440
the psychics it's the one where um

887
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:17,919
randy travels to russia

888
00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:19,359
russia being in the news at the moment

889
00:34:24,149 --> 00:34:21,520
for all the wrong reasons but anyway in

890
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:24,159
the early 1990s james randy traveled to

891
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:26,399
russia to test various psychics and

892
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:27,520
healers

893
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:30,159
and that's a fascinating a fascinating

894
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:31,440
adventure

895
00:34:37,149 --> 00:34:35,040
and one worth your time to watch

896
00:34:40,629 --> 00:34:37,159
now here's another report from the year

897
00:34:43,829 --> 00:34:40,639
1993 on the 23rd of june

898
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:43,839
as published in the canberra times

899
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:46,560
and this is by peter davis a solid

900
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:50,079
guarantee of sense and sensibility

901
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:52,720
500 mostly true believers

902
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:55,280
in skepticism from around australia

903
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:57,040
packed the melbourne university lecture

904
00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:58,720
theatre last weekend to witness an

905
00:35:03,430 --> 00:35:01,520
amusing yet serious scientific and

906
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:03,440
anecdotal avalanche against faith

907
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:05,920
healers homeopaths advocates of

908
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:08,960
armageddon believers in facilitated

909
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:12,160
communication and cult leaders you will

910
00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:15,040
see and hear the most amazing things

911
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:17,599
that are almost guaranteed to make you

912
00:35:22,870 --> 00:35:20,160
sensible again was the promise made by

913
00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:22,880
the convention organizers

914
00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:26,960
the skeptic's slogan is quote seek the

915
00:35:31,829 --> 00:35:29,440
evidence end quote and their mission is

916
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:31,839
to do to the paranormal what german

917
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,560
philosopher friedrich hegel attempted to

918
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:36,640
do to karl marx to

919
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:39,520
quote seek the rational colonel in the

920
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:42,400
mystical shell end quote opening the

921
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:45,920
convention barry jones mhr reminded the

922
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:49,440
audience that over 2 000 years ago there

923
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:52,720
was a school of academic skepticism

924
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:55,280
however i'm not a true believer

925
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:58,079
confess jones who drew upon the future

926
00:36:02,150 --> 00:36:00,640
of sisyphus to define his own branch of

927
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,160
skepticism

928
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:04,160
sisyphus was ordained to spend the rest

929
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:06,400
of his years pushing a boulder up a

930
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:09,280
mountain knowing full well that it would

931
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:12,640
crash to the bottom again we should

932
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:15,280
indeed imagine sisyphus happy

933
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:17,359
said jones paraphrasing the french

934
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:18,400
writer

935
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:20,240
albert camus

936
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:23,520
happiness and skepticism became the

937
00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:26,720
issue of the great debate titled

938
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:29,680
skepticism sucks during which two

939
00:36:35,190 --> 00:36:32,800
skeptics took on two skeptics pretending

940
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:35,200
to be non-skeptics to discuss whether or

941
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:38,400
not the term a happy skeptic

942
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:39,440
is

943
00:36:47,109 --> 00:36:45,280
the pretending non-skeptics were

944
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:47,119
declared the winners

945
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:51,040
a man who claims tremendous life joy

946
00:36:55,589 --> 00:36:53,280
from being skeptic is professor ian

947
00:36:58,589 --> 00:36:55,599
plymer head of earth sciences at

948
00:37:01,030 --> 00:36:58,599
melbourne university and self-confessed

949
00:37:03,349 --> 00:37:01,040
creationism buster

950
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,359
the charismatic professor plymouth

951
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:06,160
cleverly demonstrated how anyone can be

952
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:08,560
fooled into believing the hot air

953
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:11,280
espoused by preachers of armageddon

954
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:13,920
the main draw card of the convention was

955
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:16,640
james randy the whitebeard american

956
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:19,520
magician who founded the highly regarded

957
00:37:22,870 --> 00:37:21,359
committee for the scientific

958
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:22,880
investigation of claims of the

959
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:24,240
paranormal

960
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:27,760
randy wanders the world media circuit to

961
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:29,680
expose the fraudulent activities of

962
00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:32,560
faith healers charismatic preachers

963
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:35,760
and spoon benders his trademark is a ten

964
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:38,160
thousand dollar offer to anyone who can

965
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:40,400
demonstrate a psychic or supernatural

966
00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:41,440
event

967
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:43,680
since he took to the world stage randy

968
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:46,560
has rejected every one of the more 600

969
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:48,560
claims to the prize

970
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:50,640
there were no claims during the

971
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:52,800
australian convention we're not saying

972
00:37:57,030 --> 00:37:55,200
we're right we're simply offering an

973
00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:57,040
alternative point of view

974
00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:00,000
says randy who has published 11 books

975
00:38:04,430 --> 00:38:02,480
and who became the first magician to

976
00:38:05,630 --> 00:38:04,440
receive the prestigious

977
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:05,640
[Music]

978
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:08,640
227 thousand dollar genius award from

979
00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:10,720
the macarthur foundation

980
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:13,040
if skeptics are happy the lawyers must

981
00:38:19,109 --> 00:38:16,240
be ecstatic skepticism is big business

982
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:19,119
for the legal profession james randy has

983
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:21,839
recently emerged from a defamation case

984
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:25,680
where he was being sued for 39 million

985
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:29,040
dollars for daring to expose fraudulent

986
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:30,320
claims

987
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:32,160
the judge found for the plaintiff but

988
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:35,280
awarded zero compensation on all four

989
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:37,359
counts because he

990
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:40,800
won the plaintiff cannot appeal

991
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:44,400
randy now faces a 15 million lawsuit by

992
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:47,599
israeli spoonbender urigella who is

993
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:50,640
upset by randy's claim that he keller

994
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:53,119
uses simple sleight of hand magic not

995
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:55,839
psychic power to bend spoons

996
00:39:02,390 --> 00:38:58,079
meanwhile professor plymer is being sued

997
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:02,400
by quotes doctor and quotes alan roberts

998
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:04,720
winner of the 1992 australian skeptic's

999
00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:07,359
ben spoon award for his questioning of

1000
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:09,680
robert's claims regarding the discovery

1001
00:39:14,710 --> 00:39:12,640
of noah's ark in a mount ararat region

1002
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:14,720
of turkey at the same time professor

1003
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:17,280
plymouth is suing roberts for plagiarism

1004
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:19,280
of published material

1005
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:22,079
whilst there was much laughter at the

1006
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:24,079
convention mostly at the expense of

1007
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:26,880
faith healers and psychics many sober

1008
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,920
and salient points were made james randy

1009
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:31,760
was clearly angry when outlining his

1010
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,720
experience with quote facilitated

1011
00:39:39,670 --> 00:39:36,800
communication end quote

1012
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:39,680
where mentally disabled children use

1013
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:42,560
keyboard to type out messages under the

1014
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:46,560
guidance of an adult or facilitator he

1015
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:48,640
is in no doubt that the technique is

1016
00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:52,400
simple manipulation and that it is the

1017
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:54,960
families who suffer because they truly

1018
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,280
believe their children are communicating

1019
00:40:01,829 --> 00:39:59,760
of their own volition

1020
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:01,839
randy saved the best for last when he

1021
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:04,000
screened a video of his demonstration on

1022
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:06,720
the american tonight live show of the

1023
00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:09,680
filipino faith healing techniques

1024
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:12,560
we saw a relaxed randy pull endless

1025
00:40:17,349 --> 00:40:15,359
bloodied entrails from the unopened

1026
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:17,359
stomach of a willing and relaxed

1027
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:19,040
participant

1028
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:21,119
it's all sleight of hand

1029
00:40:25,270 --> 00:40:23,359
randy assured the convention there would

1030
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:25,280
be many people alive today if they

1031
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:27,760
hadn't relied on such charlatans

1032
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:30,079
ignorance is also of great concern to dr

1033
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:32,560
stephen basser a melbourne medical

1034
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:34,880
practitioner who now works in hospital

1035
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:36,480
administration

1036
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:39,280
in his paper called therapeutics goods

1037
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:41,599
act license to kill

1038
00:40:46,870 --> 00:40:44,160
dr basser outlined how the act creates

1039
00:40:49,990 --> 00:40:46,880
two categories registered goods and

1040
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:50,000
listed goods registered goods require an

1041
00:40:55,990 --> 00:40:53,280
evaluation of their quality and safety

1042
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:56,000
before they are released to the public

1043
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:59,040
listed goods require no such testing dr

1044
00:41:03,910 --> 00:41:01,119
basser claims that herbal remedies are

1045
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,920
mostly classed as listed goods

1046
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:05,520
why is it

1047
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:06,960
he asks

1048
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:09,599
but prescription drugs need to be

1049
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:11,599
thoroughly evaluated for their impact on

1050
00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:14,160
humans but herbal drugs which are

1051
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:17,119
supposed to have the same effect evade

1052
00:41:20,790 --> 00:41:19,040
testing simply because they carry the

1053
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:20,800
label of natural

1054
00:41:25,510 --> 00:41:22,880
one of the most disturbing talks at the

1055
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:25,520
convention was given by tony and joan

1056
00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:28,160
mcclelland they outlined the mind

1057
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:30,880
control techniques used by various cults

1058
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:33,280
to recruit members from the ever

1059
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:35,760
increasing ranks of vulnerable and the

1060
00:41:41,470 --> 00:41:38,160
gullible after spending many months and

1061
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:41,480
many thousands of dollars rescuing and

1062
00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:43,599
deprogramming their son from the

1063
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:45,760
clutches of the church of scientology

1064
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:48,800
the mcclellans found an organization

1065
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:50,880
called cult aware

1066
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:52,800
while the convention demonstrated that

1067
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:56,079
skeptics can indeed enjoy life it also

1068
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:57,839
demonstrated they need to do something

1069
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:00,480
about their gender balance

1070
00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:03,119
there were many female skeptics in the

1071
00:42:08,550 --> 00:42:05,839
audience but joan mcclellan was the only

1072
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:08,560
female out of 11 speakers and she shared

1073
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:10,720
the platform with her husband

1074
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:14,160
many skeptics are down on the media

1075
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:16,240
because they claim that editors and

1076
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:18,560
producers are all too willing to give

1077
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:21,119
time and space to charlatans simply

1078
00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:23,040
because people who indulge in the

1079
00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:26,079
paranormal make good copy perhaps to

1080
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:29,119
prove the point the 1993 bench spoon

1081
00:42:35,190 --> 00:42:32,160
award went to the steve baizard and the

1082
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:35,200
tonight live show on channel 7. the

1083
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:37,280
citation reads

1084
00:42:43,670 --> 00:42:40,240
quote for perpetuating and perpetrating

1085
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:43,680
ignorance on all and sundry who watch

1086
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:47,520
the show throughout australia

1087
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:50,160
and finally we come to the bulletin from

1088
00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:53,040
australia dated the 10th of april

1089
00:42:59,829 --> 00:42:58,950
in a piece by philip adams who is one of

1090
00:43:04,550 --> 00:42:59,839
the

1091
00:43:09,670 --> 00:43:04,560
all those years ago

1092
00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:09,680
once again the best of the bent spoons

1093
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:11,680
there are so many awards around it's

1094
00:43:17,030 --> 00:43:14,079
almost impossible not to win them

1095
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:17,040
it's only with the greatest effort that

1096
00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:19,599
i've managed to avoid cluttering the

1097
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:22,800
mantelpiece with logies oscars emmys

1098
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:25,280
archibalds and nobles

1099
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:27,359
because i'm really holding out for the

1100
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:30,000
big one the most prestigious award of

1101
00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:31,040
the lot

1102
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:33,920
yes the bence boone of the australian

1103
00:43:37,829 --> 00:43:35,280
skeptics

1104
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:37,839
penance will note that i use

1105
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,520
prestigious in its correct sense you see

1106
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:43,680
the word has absolutely nothing to do

1107
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:45,119
with status

1108
00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:46,319
it means

1109
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:49,760
practicing tricks juggling or cheating

1110
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:52,720
it derives from press to digitization

1111
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:55,280
which has to do with sleight of hand

1112
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:57,040
and ledger domain

1113
00:44:02,309 --> 00:43:59,359
bulletin readers may recall that the

1114
00:44:03,430 --> 00:44:02,319
original ben spoon was in honor of uri

1115
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:03,440
geller

1116
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:06,480
sworn enemy of cutlery

1117
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:08,880
anyone foolish enough to lend him a

1118
00:44:14,069 --> 00:44:12,560
piece of rod or grosner or heaven forbid

1119
00:44:16,390 --> 00:44:14,079
their christof

1120
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,400
which is a french line of silverware i

1121
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:18,000
think would have

1122
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,040
them tied in knots or entirely

1123
00:44:26,270 --> 00:44:23,760
depronged

1124
00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:26,280
the phenomenon of psychic metal bending

1125
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:28,640
rampaged through the scientific

1126
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:31,119
laboratories of the uk in the us as a

1127
00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:34,000
succession of gullible scientists by

1128
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:37,280
endorsing yuri's paranormal skills

1129
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:39,760
made fools of themselves the simple fact

1130
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:42,960
was that gela who was a kundra who in

1131
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:44,160
due course

1132
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:47,200
was unmasked by another gundra the

1133
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:50,720
devastating debunker james randy

1134
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:52,960
forced to scuttle from the limelight

1135
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:54,880
geller was seen

1136
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:57,599
selling health foods in a counter

1137
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:59,599
culture noshery

1138
00:45:03,109 --> 00:45:01,200
in new york

1139
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:03,119
more recently he's been living in a

1140
00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:05,599
preposterous mansion provided for him by

1141
00:45:08,470 --> 00:45:07,680
the wife of a south american president

1142
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:08,480
who

1143
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:11,119
despite detailed evidence of chicanery

1144
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:14,720
chooses to believe that uri is god

1145
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:15,839
so

1146
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:18,640
we australian skeptics decided to honor

1147
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:21,839
geller's contribution to gullibility

1148
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:23,359
gullibility

1149
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:24,240
with

1150
00:45:31,109 --> 00:45:27,040
annual awards for paranormal nonsense in

1151
00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:31,119
a number of hotly contested categories

1152
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:34,400
by tradition our judge is 3aw's darren

1153
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:36,960
hinge and this page carries the glad

1154
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:39,599
tidings to the four corners of the

1155
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:40,960
continent

1156
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:43,040
now i'll just quickly say here that i

1157
00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:44,960
wasn't aware that in the early days that

1158
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:47,119
darren hinch who was a famous radio

1159
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:48,720
personality tv

1160
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:50,960
personality and later senator

1161
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:53,280
was involved in judging the australian

1162
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:54,880
skeptic spence boone award all those

1163
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:56,880
years ago

1164
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:00,240
currently it's decided by a

1165
00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:03,839
more or less a polling of various

1166
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:06,319
skeptical committees around the country

1167
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:08,000
we read on

1168
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,640
in the open psychic section the nominees

1169
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:12,079
were

1170
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:14,880
kevin arnett who once again appeared on

1171
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:16,800
the don lane show

1172
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,119
with a panel of psychics to predict the

1173
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:21,040
outcome of the melbourne cup

1174
00:46:24,309 --> 00:46:23,040
as in previous years the predictions

1175
00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:24,319
were pathetic

1176
00:46:29,349 --> 00:46:26,720
not one of the psychics first choices so

1177
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:29,359
much ran a place

1178
00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:31,520
when pressed for an explanation

1179
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:33,359
annette lamented

1180
00:46:37,990 --> 00:46:36,640
after all there are only human beings

1181
00:46:41,829 --> 00:46:38,000
two

1182
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:41,839
tom wards who on radio 3

1183
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:43,680
on melbourne cup day

1184
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:46,640
complained that annette had not invited

1185
00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:48,800
him to join the psychic panel on the don

1186
00:46:53,589 --> 00:46:51,760
lane show not content with naming one or

1187
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:53,599
two horses as winners

1188
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:57,520
clairvoyant wards gave a list of five

1189
00:47:02,470 --> 00:47:01,040
sadly not one of them so much as ran a

1190
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:02,480
place

1191
00:47:06,069 --> 00:47:03,440
three

1192
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:06,079
gary wiseman astrologer

1193
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:09,040
for explaining in people that's people

1194
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:12,000
magazine june 1983

1195
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:14,240
that his prediction that malcolm fraser

1196
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:16,319
would step down due to flagging health

1197
00:47:20,710 --> 00:47:18,640
came true

1198
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:20,720
indirectly

1199
00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:22,480
malcolm fraser by the way was prime

1200
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:25,760
minister who um stepped down because he

1201
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:27,440
lost the election

1202
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:28,319
for

1203
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:32,160
audience to convince itself that his

1204
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:34,880
face was changing that an aura was

1205
00:47:39,589 --> 00:47:37,920
appearing around him and that one arm

1206
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:39,599
was disappearing

1207
00:47:44,870 --> 00:47:42,400
all by simple lighting effects

1208
00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:44,880
we also liked the quote

1209
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:47,119
if you take away spiritual happenings

1210
00:47:53,349 --> 00:47:49,599
from the bible you are only left with

1211
00:47:55,589 --> 00:47:53,359
rape murder and genealogical tables

1212
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,599
next there's the media prize the

1213
00:47:58,470 --> 00:47:57,200
nominees were

1214
00:48:01,069 --> 00:47:58,480
one

1215
00:48:04,150 --> 00:48:01,079
sunday times for reporting january 1

1216
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:04,160
1983 that a western australian couple

1217
00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:08,240
contacted manu of the planet tau seti

1218
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:10,640
telepathically every day

1219
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:13,359
two martin collins of the australian

1220
00:48:20,069 --> 00:48:16,160
which is a newspaper for stating april

1221
00:48:22,710 --> 00:48:20,079
30 1983 that negative ion generators

1222
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:22,720
prevented migraines colds hay fever

1223
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:24,240
hangovers

1224
00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:25,119
and

1225
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:28,800
admitting that an appalling grasp upon

1226
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:30,720
matter scientific prevents your

1227
00:48:35,349 --> 00:48:32,319
correspondent providing a proper

1228
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:35,359
technical rundown of the machine

1229
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:36,240
3.

1230
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:39,599
new idea for an article on september 3

1231
00:48:46,829 --> 00:48:43,280
1983 claiming that we all have esp

1232
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:46,839
and can develop it by some simple

1233
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:50,319
exercises 4. the sydney sun

1234
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:52,880
for publishing a 20-question

1235
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:55,680
psychic quotient test on september the

1236
00:49:01,510 --> 00:48:58,240
1st 1983

1237
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:01,520
5. the sydney daily mirror for front

1238
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:04,319
page headline screaming

1239
00:49:09,109 --> 00:49:06,000
believe it or not

1240
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:09,119
sydney airport tracks ufos

1241
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:10,800
when the department of aviation later

1242
00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:13,280
reported that the blip was found to be

1243
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:15,200
the result of interference between two

1244
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:16,720
radar systems

1245
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:18,480
hardly a squeak

1246
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:21,359
was heard from the press

1247
00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:22,319
six

1248
00:49:27,510 --> 00:49:25,200
the australasian post for continuing to

1249
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:27,520
give acres to the catastrophic

1250
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:31,520
predictions from wards for example on

1251
00:49:37,109 --> 00:49:34,880
june 23 1982 wards announced that the

1252
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:37,119
federal election would be held in the

1253
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:38,880
next eight weeks

1254
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:40,079
it wasn't

1255
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:42,640
and that neville ran would enter federal

1256
00:49:46,470 --> 00:49:43,680
parliament

1257
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:46,480
also that jobioki peterson would retire

1258
00:49:52,710 --> 00:49:49,680
and that labour would win in queensland

1259
00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:52,720
incredibly ward's 1983 predictions were

1260
00:49:59,670 --> 00:49:57,200
even worse on january 6th his third eye

1261
00:50:01,109 --> 00:49:59,680
foresaw spy scandals bringing down the

1262
00:50:03,910 --> 00:50:01,119
british government

1263
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:03,920
alice springs hit by food poisoning

1264
00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:06,319
and the ship sinking near hobart and

1265
00:50:11,589 --> 00:50:09,040
snow in melbourne in june

1266
00:50:13,349 --> 00:50:11,599
7. people magazine for publishing an

1267
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:13,359
even greater quantity of psychic

1268
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:16,800
nonsense the indefatigable john pinckney

1269
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:18,960
reported that people in queensland and

1270
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:21,599
perth were telepathically communicating

1271
00:50:23,829 --> 00:50:23,040
with the ufos

1272
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:23,839
and

1273
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:27,040
that a perth schoolboy had fought ugly

1274
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:30,559
aliens from a huge green and white cone

1275
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:32,400
pinkney told how a melbourne film

1276
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:35,520
producer's house was hit by mysterious

1277
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:40,000
fires until exorcist carry culkins

1278
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:44,880
removed a mask of a new guinea fire god

1279
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:47,040
and in reporting that holy water could

1280
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:49,280
cure oral herpes

1281
00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:51,599
pinckney suggested that homosexuals may

1282
00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:54,000
have belonged to the opposite sex in a

1283
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:55,599
previous life

1284
00:50:59,990 --> 00:50:57,839
government involvement in the paranormal

1285
00:51:00,870 --> 00:51:00,000
scored two nominations

1286
00:51:03,270 --> 00:51:00,880
one

1287
00:51:05,990 --> 00:51:03,280
jobyoki peterson for his continued

1288
00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:06,000
support of cancer therapist

1289
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:09,119
milan breit following the conviction in

1290
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:11,280
los angeles of the dud check and check

1291
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:13,440
his spelt c zed

1292
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:15,119
ech

1293
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:17,599
on 12 counts of dangerous medical

1294
00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:20,640
malpractice and fraud joe described the

1295
00:51:26,549 --> 00:51:23,680
decision as a pity

1296
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:26,559
two telecom australia for running two

1297
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:29,599
dial a horoscope recorded information

1298
00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:32,720
services listed along with legitimate

1299
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:34,960
services for news weather and boating

1300
00:51:39,430 --> 00:51:37,440
safety australian skeptics wonder

1301
00:51:41,910 --> 00:51:39,440
whether telecom research laboratories

1302
00:51:44,710 --> 00:51:41,920
who maintain the precision of the time

1303
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:44,720
service also guarantee the accuracy of

1304
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:47,040
the astrological predictions

1305
00:51:52,549 --> 00:51:50,160
the october 1983 issue of telecom staff

1306
00:51:56,069 --> 00:51:52,559
magazine introduced us to their

1307
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:56,079
astrologer pamela rowe explaining that

1308
00:52:02,950 --> 00:51:58,160
she has quote

1309
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:02,960
gained a diploma in cosmobiology in 1977

1310
00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:06,559
end quote the final category concerns

1311
00:52:10,549 --> 00:52:08,800
science we are all proud to list three

1312
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:10,559
outstanding nominees

1313
00:52:14,390 --> 00:52:11,440
one

1314
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:14,400
stan dio a self-styled research

1315
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:17,440
physicist deo claims he had discovered

1316
00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:19,280
ufo propulsion by

1317
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:20,720
anti-gravity

1318
00:52:26,230 --> 00:52:24,000
non-uniform internal shifts and

1319
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:26,240
anti-vector currents when pressed for

1320
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:28,319
further information deo told us that

1321
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:30,480
such discoveries were concealed by a

1322
00:52:35,390 --> 00:52:32,400
government conspiracy

1323
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:35,400
2. the maharishi makes yogi

1324
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:38,319
ex-spiritual advisor to the beatles the

1325
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:41,119
maharishi has recently revealed his

1326
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:44,720
quote technology of the unified field

1327
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:47,839
end quote based on bogus quantum physics

1328
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:50,640
the maharishi talks of quote the

1329
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:53,200
continuous effervescence of topological

1330
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:54,880
fluctuations

1331
00:52:58,710 --> 00:52:56,800
end quote and hands out the most

1332
00:53:00,870 --> 00:52:58,720
wondrous full looking scientific

1333
00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:00,880
equations in recent double-page

1334
00:53:05,109 --> 00:53:02,720
advertisements in newspapers throughout

1335
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:05,119
the world the maharishi announced that

1336
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:07,680
his followers would through meditation

1337
00:53:11,430 --> 00:53:10,319
prevent the third world war

1338
00:53:14,309 --> 00:53:11,440
three

1339
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:14,319
barry setterfield amateur astronomer

1340
00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:17,599
turned creationist recently contrived a

1341
00:53:21,670 --> 00:53:19,520
mathematical curve

1342
00:53:23,750 --> 00:53:21,680
allegedly based on the speed of light

1343
00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:23,760
which showed that the universe began in

1344
00:53:28,630 --> 00:53:27,280
the year 4040

1345
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:28,640
bc

1346
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:32,160
coincident with biblical chronology

1347
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:34,559
his findings were published in a long

1348
00:53:39,990 --> 00:53:38,160
and detailed scientific paper all in all

1349
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:40,000
rich pickings

1350
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:42,720
and now to the report from our judge

1351
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:44,240
mr hinch

1352
00:53:48,309 --> 00:53:46,319
this year's finals for the bent spoon

1353
00:53:50,470 --> 00:53:48,319
show a shortage of spoon benders

1354
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:50,480
water-powered car inventors

1355
00:53:54,870 --> 00:53:52,640
haunted council officers and the doris

1356
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:54,880
stokes trademark of

1357
00:53:58,069 --> 00:53:56,400
i see a ron

1358
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:58,079
no a ray

1359
00:54:03,829 --> 00:54:01,200
no a roy is your name reg

1360
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:03,839
yes i see you there is no shortage of

1361
00:54:08,470 --> 00:54:06,160
ufo candidates and i'm still perplexed

1362
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:08,480
why the aliens always snatch and race

1363
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:11,920
off in their close encounterships with

1364
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:14,640
corn farmers from iowa but never with an

1365
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:16,880
einstein or mcfarland brunette

1366
00:54:21,270 --> 00:54:18,640
i was going to say that this year's list

1367
00:54:23,430 --> 00:54:21,280
is disappointing but then maybe just

1368
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:23,440
maybe people are becoming a little less

1369
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:26,000
gullible there has been no drop off in

1370
00:54:30,069 --> 00:54:27,200
the psychic

1371
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:30,079
religious mumbo-jumbo the maharishi's

1372
00:54:35,430 --> 00:54:32,880
mishmash of equations about utopia and

1373
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:35,440
the unified field keeps pouring forth i

1374
00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:37,599
have given him the prize in the academic

1375
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:38,400
section

1376
00:54:45,030 --> 00:54:42,319
peterson rates another mention for this

1377
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,040
year for his continued support of cancer

1378
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:47,440
quack brunch even after breich's

1379
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:50,400
conviction on 12 charges in los angeles

1380
00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:52,720
however telecom wins it with dialer

1381
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:55,680
horoscope in the media it is always a

1382
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:58,319
close call between pikmi and ward's

1383
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:00,400
professional future predictor

1384
00:55:07,349 --> 00:55:04,559
tats numbers picker disaster spotter etc

1385
00:55:09,910 --> 00:55:07,359
our overall winner though is hassle he

1386
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:09,920
can dematerialize himself so that people

1387
00:55:14,309 --> 00:55:11,680
can see right through him

1388
00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:14,319
it is a pity that more people can't

1389
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:17,119
amen to that

1390
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:20,480
and that was a roundup of the bent spoon

1391
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:21,440
award

1392
00:55:26,790 --> 00:55:24,240
from the year 1984 written by philip

1393
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:31,589
[Music]

1394
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:34,069
so there we go some of the references to

1395
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:37,280
the activities here in australia

1396
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:40,400
over the years with the convention james

1397
00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:42,640
randy and of course

1398
00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:45,839
the ben spoon award

1399
00:55:50,549 --> 00:55:48,720
and don't forget that trove the treasure

1400
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:50,559
trove that is drove

1401
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:53,280
is open to you the door is open all you

1402
00:56:00,789 --> 00:55:59,349
and type in your search criteria and

1403
00:56:05,090 --> 00:56:00,799
you'll never know

1404
00:56:05,100 --> 00:56:23,510
[Music]

1405
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:25,510
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1406
00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:27,920
zone podcast this week and thank you

1407
00:56:31,829 --> 00:56:30,160
as ever as always to my wonderful

1408
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:31,839
listeners who support the skeptic zone

1409
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:33,680
at skepticzone.tv

1410
00:56:37,589 --> 00:56:36,240
by our patreon or paypal with your

1411
00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:37,599
monthly

1412
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:39,280
contributions

1413
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:40,480
and the

1414
00:56:44,069 --> 00:56:42,240
occasionally the people who simply chip

1415
00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:44,079
in there's an option there in the paypal

1416
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:46,960
segment or section where you can chip in

1417
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:49,280
and if you've chipped in recently keep

1418
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:51,200
an eye on the post something's coming

1419
00:56:55,030 --> 00:56:52,720
your way

1420
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:55,040
as well as my gratitude

1421
00:56:58,710 --> 00:56:57,280
my deep gratitude because it's because

1422
00:57:01,030 --> 00:56:58,720
of all you people

1423
00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:01,040
that the show can keep going

1424
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:03,440
coming up on next week's show the trove

1425
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:04,720
segment

1426
00:57:10,309 --> 00:57:08,079
uh looks like we've got astrology

1427
00:57:13,510 --> 00:57:10,319
once more looking at astrology lined up

1428
00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:13,520
in the trove segment and the book of tim

1429
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:14,960
the book of tim keeping with the

1430
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:16,720
astrology theme

1431
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:19,200
looks at astrology and

1432
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:21,200
astronomy

1433
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,720
and speaking of trove speaking of trove

1434
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:26,640
i've um

1435
00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:29,680
i've covered so many

1436
00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:31,920
uh skeptical topics on drove i'm

1437
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:34,240
wondering what to cover next

1438
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:37,680
if you care to make a comment on the

1439
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:38,960
facebook

1440
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:41,119
posting of this week's episode

1441
00:57:45,190 --> 00:57:43,280
so go to skepticzone.tv and at the top

1442
00:57:46,789 --> 00:57:45,200
you'll see the facebook link

1443
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:46,799
and once you're on facebook the

1444
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:49,040
skeptic's own facebook page

1445
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:51,200
you can like that podcast and then you

1446
00:57:57,109 --> 00:57:54,480
can comment so maybe on the comments for

1447
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:57,119
episode number 704

1448
00:58:02,390 --> 00:57:58,799
you can um

1449
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:02,400
maybe uh tell me what you'd like me to

1450
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:04,960
look up in the trove archives

1451
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:07,119
and talk about maybe it's something

1452
00:58:10,950 --> 00:58:08,640
we've done before

1453
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:10,960
ufos are always very popular alternative

1454
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:12,559
medicine

1455
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:15,040
psychics clairvoyance tarot

1456
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:17,599
ouija boards monsters

1457
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:19,440
you name it

1458
00:58:23,349 --> 00:58:20,720
or um

1459
00:58:25,030 --> 00:58:23,359
or maybe you've got an idea

1460
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:25,040
maybe you have an idea for a new

1461
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:27,200
adventure for the skeptical fairy the

1462
00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:29,200
skeptical fairy godmother angel from the

1463
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:30,319
internet

1464
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:31,920
who um

1465
00:58:37,829 --> 00:58:34,799
appears in a puff of smoke to save the

1466
00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:37,839
day occasionally hmm

1467
00:58:41,109 --> 00:58:39,599
i think she needs some

1468
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:41,119
new adventures

1469
00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:43,040
and before i go a big congratulations to

1470
00:58:46,549 --> 00:58:44,640
our dear friend susan gobick from

1471
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:46,559
guerrilla skepticism

1472
00:58:50,750 --> 00:58:48,880
on wikipedia for

1473
00:58:53,430 --> 00:58:50,760
just celebrating her

1474
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:53,440
100th online

1475
00:58:57,589 --> 00:58:55,680
quiz weekly quiz

1476
00:58:59,349 --> 00:58:57,599
now why that's important is that she

1477
00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:59,359
began doing these quizzes during the

1478
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:01,920
pandemic when everybody needed a pick up

1479
00:59:07,109 --> 00:59:04,720
a lift up something and

1480
00:59:09,109 --> 00:59:07,119
it's been a weekly tradition now for a

1481
00:59:11,670 --> 00:59:09,119
hundred weeks with many people joining

1482
00:59:13,190 --> 00:59:11,680
in and it's a big part of their week and

1483
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:13,200
mine too i

1484
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:15,520
i often attend the weekly trivia

1485
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:17,520
sessions and have a wonderful time catch

1486
00:59:23,109 --> 00:59:19,920
up with friends and it's all thanks to

1487
00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:23,119
susan gobek so susan wonderful job

1488
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:25,280
and congratulations

1489
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:27,280
but for this week this is richard

1490
00:59:31,109 --> 00:59:29,599
saunders signing off from the skeptic

1491
00:59:37,990 --> 00:59:31,119
zone studios

1492
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:39,750
you've been listening to the skeptic

1493
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:41,200
zone podcast

1494
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:42,640
please visit our website at

1495
00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:48,870
for show notes contacts and to access

1496
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:51,440
the back catalog of episodes going back

1497
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:53,599
to 2008.

1498
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:55,599
you can follow the skepticzone podcast

1499
01:00:00,470 --> 00:59:58,319
on twitter at skepticzone

1500
01:00:02,710 --> 01:00:00,480
visit our facebook page or leave a

1501
01:00:04,870 --> 01:00:02,720
review on itunes

1502
01:00:08,069 --> 01:00:04,880
you can also support the skeptic zone

1503
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:08,079
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1504
01:00:13,030 --> 01:00:11,200
podcast is an independent production

1505
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:13,040
the views and opinions expressed on the

1506
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:15,359
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1507
01:00:19,490 --> 01:00:17,839
of australian skeptics or any other

1508
01:00:31,990 --> 01:00:19,500
skeptical organization

1509
01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:33,829
i'm now with the skeptic's own cats

1510
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:36,240
henrietta and maude who are very

1511
01:00:40,230 --> 01:00:37,920
skeptical because they think it's time

1512
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:40,240
for dinner do you want some dinner

1513
01:00:46,870 --> 01:00:43,839
want some dinner what's that

1514
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,050
who wants some dinner

1515
01:00:52,789 --> 01:00:51,190
[Music]

1516
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:52,799
you have to wait another hour before

1517
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:54,799
dinner

1518
01:00:59,589 --> 01:00:56,880
you don't agree

1519
01:01:01,349 --> 01:00:59,599
gonna take it up at the board meeting

1520
01:01:03,550 --> 01:01:01,359
okay